necessarily / probably turn into a brat, would demand for un-affordable things from the parents, etc... Can some parents of wards from high profile schools like KR Mangalam / GD Goenka / Vasant Valley, etc. share their views on this general perception. What is the truth / Myth?
(2) Many a time, we go by just the past reputation of what we hear in our friends/acquaintance circle. I am sure, nobody (at least your relative!) would say that the school in which their ward is, is bad. So how rational is to check reputation like this.
Secondly, since we are getting our kids admitted in pre-school / nursery and it would be good 14 years by the time he passes 12th Board. This is a huge time period for everything to change especially when the basic characteristic of school intake has changed dramatically. Earlier, for instance in many reputed schools (say DPS Mathura Road) and such schools, the admission was through pulls and pressure of well connected people (and thus ensuring that at least the parents of such kids can afford to spend well on tutions, extra curricular activities, outings, sports, better transportation, etc. more than their poor counterparts in other lesser privileged schools), now it is happening (more or less) on some objective (!) criteria (very stupid though). This imply that the schools now have much lesser control on the intake criteria of the students. Would it not start reflecting in the academic performance in the time to come, when you have more of middle class parents in these schools?. Would it not reflect an entirely new ranking / order of the schools after say 7 - 10 years when it would actually start mattering to us?
I think the winner would be the school which can demonstrate and implement very strong processes and systems towards giving education. Some schools, which so far, were just surviving on high quality students intake of the parents who could afford to provide expensive support system, will fall aside.
Also, some schools like DPS RK Puram whose claim to fame has been extremely strict Mrs Choona as Principle would change as the key person like this principle retires in years to come. Whereas for other schools say DPS Mathura Road, wherein the new principle MI Hussain (who as earlier principle of DPS Bhilai is extremely reputed), would probably make the things entirely different, for better I suppose.
So in that sense, aren't schools like corporate wherein the old reputed companies (like Godrej / business houses) giving way to much agile, faster and better new companies?
I feel currently the only parameter which reflects the strong processes / system of the school is how unbiased, objective and clean admission system a school was following for admission. If this process itself was convoluted, it does not inspire too much confidence in me as parent in future discipline they would inculcate in my child, irrespective of the reputation that they currently have.
Recent market thing of Satyam computers has shown that how the high priests of reputation have fallen disgracefully. So, is the reputation a really very good criteria or we all are a part of this herd mentality.
The decision becomes thus very important as we need to think 10 -15 years ahead, as changing schools later on, is really not a very easy process.
Amita
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22 Comments
Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 10:56am
Delete Comment u r actually right amita..............each word that u have mentioned. the 'good', 'bad', 'best' terms are very relative to a person. A school that is 'best' for some maynot be 'good' for other. besides the reputation of the school, everone has separate parameters to judge a school. for someone the 'infrastructure' of the school becomes a very big criteria and for other it may lose its importance if school has good academic results over the past years.
You have mentioned 3 schools....Goenka, manglam, VV,....if u asl me i have only heard good things about vv. there maybe others who have heard bad about vv and good about goenka and so on.
I really would not want to say much on this except that we as parents should have clear heads about what we want for our kids, our family environment (in terms of education and finances) and support system around us. There is a term in hindi 'BHER CHAL'. we should not follow the crowd but decide on our own, keeping in mind many factors including what i and u mentioned.
Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 10:58am
Delete Comment to add...............given a choice b/w an old established school and a new school that has been running only for 3-4 years..........i will NEVER opt for the new school.
Rupi Comment by Rupi on January 21, 2009 at 11:08am
Delete Comment Shilpi, i agree with your views.....but, in today's scenario there are so many ppl who have not secured a seat in any school....would they be in a position to make any choice per se.....eventually they will have to go for what is available to them......
Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 11:19am
Delete Comment right rupi...................please see, i said...'GIVEN A CHOICE'. we can talk about a school being bad and other being good and I'll go for this and dont go for that....only if we have a choice.
i firmly believe in 'BEGGARS ARE NOT CHOSERS'. yes if the result of the new schoolis declared before the reputed one...then its a big decision that u have to make. I took a risk and didnot get my daughter admitted in a new upcoming school in Noida (i would say 'best among new :)), where competition seemed equally tough as it happened be the 1st one to declare the result. i let it go. I was scared about what 'if i dont get into school of my choice'.
IF GIVEN A CHOICE.........................what will one opt for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Angella Comment by Angella on January 21, 2009 at 11:22am
Delete Comment Hi Amita,
United Front family extend a very warm welcome to you. The discussion you have started above covers indeed very good issues for debating as there are views and opinions on both the sides. Thank u for raising them and giving the opportunity for an invigorating discussion.
1. Ur first concern is of the negative influence an expensive school will have on the child, from the perspective of a middle class parent (rich parents may not find it an issue ..). In my opinion, the chances of kids becoming brats and snobs in such schools is high, though not 100%. Not to make them such kids, we parents have to put an extra effort - in making them realise the value of parents' sweat in earning the money, the greatness in adopting a simple way of life, impeccable personality and wisdom as the greatest asset (rather than branded stuff), and so on. If we are able to instill in them the above virtues/values, we would be able to shield them from such unwanted influences otherwise the child has to learn from his mistakes.
2. 'Reputation' may be judged on two scales -
(a) one is the subjective scale - such as the relative's view which u have mentioned
(b) the other is the objective scale - such as the school's previous result, the permanency of the teachers, the trophies the school has received in various inter-school competitions, the varied exposure provided by the schools - environmental awareness, community service, etc.
The subjective scale will vary from person to person and from what perspective he/she is looking at the issue (and on top of that u have mentioned that they may not disclose - halwai aapni methai ko kabhi kharab nahi bolta). The objective scale is more reliable ... but change is part of nature. A school in top 3 today may become after some years a school in top 15 .. but I don't think will degrade to the extent of not being listed in top 30 in a course of 10-14 yrs.
If the focus of a school is on the right track then change should not be drastic in its delivery.
Amita ji, u r very right when u talk about the effect of the personality of principals on the quality of education in schools. Mrs. Choona has played a major role in pushing up the RK puram branch. They have a policy of admitting the toppers of other schools in their XIth class so that the XII result is impressive in the boards as well the percentage of cracking the engineering and medical entrance tests is high. Otherwise, in Xth result the Vasant Kunj Branch is doing much better in the last 2-3 yrs. The RK puram branch has also made people from Vasant Kunj (C5 block onwards) ineligible to apply in their school.
I do subscribe to your argument that the policies, parameters and clean conduct of the admission process goes a long way in promising a good education system ... when the base/foundation itself is faulty, what kind of strong and enduring structure can we expect from the so-called micro builders of this nation.
Cheers.
karan Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 1:17pm
Delete Comment CHILD BECOMING A SPOLIED BRAT IN EXPENSIVE SCHOOL-: what i will say here is, it is not the school but the immediate family and parents who's contribution decides what kind of a person will your child become, the probabilty of the child getting spoiled in Expensive schools is equal to the child getting spoiled in tradional school like BVN/SARDAR PATEL/BAL BHARTI.
There are spoiled brats in these schools also. The contribution of parents here is utmost important, it is the family values that ensure that your child doesnt get spoiled not the school.
A person can always cross check what kind of a company is his/her child is in the school .Every school teaches discipline, its how that discipline implemented by us parents decide how our child will fare.
Regarding the results schools will give after 10-15 yrs...... Schools like DPS RKPURAM/BVN/DPS MATHURA ROAD/SARDAR PATEL will always give good 10th, 12th result as the system from basic stages is academics oriented,the children are taught in a way to give good academic reults, Even schools like GOODLEY in Shalimar bagh gives CBSE TOPPERS EVERY YEAR.
Now the point is why schools like Shriram and Vasant Valley has overtaken DPS RK PURAM as first prefrence........ According to me the reason is, these schools focus on overall development of the child and not only academics, the society and economy is opening up, so there are many more oppurtunities in life now as compared to 15 yrs back, so now getting a good academic score is definately important but an average student can also make his living as good as a acadmically best student because oppurtunities has now increased.
MY FIRM BELIEF IS -: EVERY CHILD IS BORN WITH A HIDDEN TALENT(QUALITY), IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF US PARENTS TO FIND THAT TALENT IN OUR CHILD AND GIVE HIM ALL THE NECESSARY SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT SO THAT THE CHILD CAN USE THAT TALENT TO EARN A LIVING. THE ROLE OF THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE TO GIVE THE CHILD THE NECESSARY BACKUP IN FORM OF GOOD ACADEMIC GUIDANCE,GOOD INFRASTUCTURE AND GOOD TEACHERS WHO CAN HELP IN BUILDING A SOLID BASE AND GUIDING THE CHILD IN LIFE, ALSO THE KIND OF PEER GROUP THE CHILD FORMS IN SCHOOL IS UTMOST IMPORTANT.
Dr Y TOMAR Comment by Dr Y TOMAR on January 21, 2009 at 4:20pm
Delete Comment MY FIRM BELIEF IS -: EVERY CHILD IS BORN WITH A HIDDEN TALENT(QUALITY), IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF US PARENTS TO FIND THAT TALENT IN OUR CHILD AND GIVE HIM ALL THE NECESSARY SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT SO THAT THE CHILD CAN USE THAT TALENT TO EARN A LIVING. THE ROLE OF THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE TO GIVE THE CHILD THE NECESSARY BACKUP IN FORM OF GOOD ACADEMIC GUIDANCE,GOOD INFRASTUCTURE AND GOOD TEACHERS WHO CAN HELP IN BUILDING A SOLID BASE AND GUIDING THE CHILD IN LIFE, ALSO THE KIND OF PEER GROUP THE CHILD FORMS IN SCHOOL IS UTMOST IMPORTANT.
karan Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 4:53pm
Delete Comment Dr Tomarji, kya hua sir..........why did you repeat my lines :))
Angella Comment by Angella on January 21, 2009 at 7:16pm
Delete Comment Dr. Tomar seems to imply that he second u on this point. I guess Karan, u hav expressed it so well that he does not want to add anything else. :)
Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 8:48pm
Delete Comment I am not taking it in a negitive way .My comment for Dr Tomar was on a very light tone with aSmiling face.
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 22, 2009 at 9:09pm
Delete Comment I agree with Amita, Angella, SPOC and Karan. By and large all schools have many rich and spoilt brats and parents role is all important.
But in richie rich schools which "now" charge between 60 to 150,000 per annum per child, many middle class people like me cannot afford to send 2 kids. I might to able to scrape by with sending one kid to such a school, but my kid would be the poorest in the class. I dont want him to be the poorest, even if only half the kids are spoilt brats and the other half are nice kids. Better to go to a school where the child will be somewhere in the middle, neither too rich, nor too poor
Re: DPS RKP, it was not Chona who elevated it to its current level, it was the previous principal RS Lugani. Chona has continued the status, but many feel it has come down somewhat in recent years. Better to say, other schools have caught up, DPS RKP is still the leader. Sadly, the mother school DPS MR has deteriorated, precicely because of its residential campus and admission policy of accomodating rich and powerful. Recent events in DPS RKP (new hostel, capitation fee based entry etc) are ominous. I would say the Ganguly committee has made for a much better intake in DPS in the last 3 years than in the 3 years before that, when anybody who could pay was allowed in.
All schools, DPS VK, Mothers, SPV and Birla not excluded, have continuous entry of bright children throughout the 14 years on the basis of entrance test. Wrong to single out only DPS RKP, other schools results are also biased by the performance of these bright kids.
DPS RKP, DPS VK, Birla, Mothers and SPV have truly excellent (and well paid) teachers, so these bright kids benefit by both competition and teaching in middle and higher classes, which they would not have got in their original schools. School of course benefits in the results. It is not a one way street.
DPs RKP differs from Birla and Mothers in its attention to sports, shared by DPS VK and SPV as well
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 22, 2009 at 9:12pm
Delete Comment One more comment - now that DPS international has come, DPS RKP has refocussed on middle class intake while the upper class intake gets channelled into int school. Better for both and very sensible
Angella Comment by Angella on January 23, 2009 at 10:04am
Delete Comment Where is Amita ji? We are waiting to hear ur views on the comments given by various members of this forum.
karan Comment by karan on January 23, 2009 at 1:46pm
Delete Comment I beg to differ with oddysseus Noman in one count.......DPS I is is not just for upper class, it also is quiet good for upper middle and middle class.
I read your comments on NA regarding DPS I,those comments were factually wrong, i could not reply there because i discontinued my membership there.
karan Comment by karan on January 23, 2009 at 1:59pm
Delete Comment Delete Comment I would like to add one thing........ O Noman, i donot have anything persoanl against you, so please don't mind my last statement personally .............. You seem to be a very knowledgeable and intelligent person with strong opinion and will be a assest to this site but i felt you were misinformed regarding DPS I , so i thought i should clarify.:)) we are friends here so dont take my statement personally.
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 23, 2009 at 8:23pm
Delete Comment Karan, why dont you tell us more about DPS I? I have only seen their (very posh!) building from outside. I did not apply to it and know little about it. My comments were very general about international schools.
Specifically, I would like to know how much their fee per annum is. Also, their class size and whether they use the same playground and coaches as DPS RK Puram
karan Comment by karan on January 27, 2009 at 12:42pm
Delete Comment I have already posted a thread "Acceptance of A Level ,University of Cambridge" in India, This is the course that is offered by DPSI.
As regards to fees it is aprox 7000 per month + 42000 per annum.
The student teacher ratio will be 20-25:1 , which they promise to keep till senior secondry.(The fees becomes justified as the student will be getting personal attention.)
Mrs Shama Chona, is now the director of DPS I , so this school will be under her dircect supervision in future,hence another plus point.
The Senior buliding in Saket is slf sufficient in playgrounds /coaches etc.
For further information please visit there site
http://www.dpsi.ac.in/
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 28, 2009 at 12:06am
Delete Comment Hi Karan,
Thanks for the info.
1.2 L per annum (now) is beyond my budget. I am sure fees will increase later with general salary increase. I therefore never bothered to apply here.
I have only seen their RK Puram building. My own feeling is that they are keeping DPS for the middle class (govt servant etc) and DPSI for the upper middle/upper class, who can afford or are planning to educate their children abroad. A lot of people from DPS RKP who were sending their kids abroad would now prefer DPSI.
DPS RKP itself has been progressively increasing their playway methods of learning, structured curriculum and non stress teaching methods at their VV branch (posibly less so at EOK, although many people feel EOK is better than VV). I am sure all of this is learned from their DPSI experience. So the benefits flow both ways.
So are you planning to keep your kid in DPSI?
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 28, 2009 at 12:14am
Delete Comment Amita, your comments are very true. Where the school will be in 14 years time is impossible to predict.
Principals do make a huge difference. RS Lugani of DPS RKP had a vision, which made it great in the 70s and 80s (when I was in school). Chona has continued the work, but DPS RKP has not risen higher, the graph has plateaued and others are playing catch up.
DPS MR had deteriorated, but it looks like the graph is pointing up again. Unlike many others, I found DPS MR admission process totally transparent. I think people were harking back to the old days when DPS MR had a bad reputation of admitting people on connections or money, when they complained or felt bitter.
Residential school in any of the schools admits for a deterioration of the atmosphere. DPS MR, Modern BKR and now DPS RKP are falling into this trap.
anyway, 14 years is a long way away. What our kids need then is also imponderable
I agree with you on this count that the benefits will definately flow both ways............:-))
kirti Comment by kirti on March 21, 2009 at 2:00pm
Delete Comment hi amrita i saw very nice discussion just now. i just joined few days back.
I DONT AGREE with shilpi i m leaving old established convent school for new upcoming school srijan…
1) Does Expensive schools mean that the kid would necessarily / probably turn into a brat, would demand for un-affordable things from the parents, etc... Can some parents of wards from high profile schools share their views on this general perception. What is the truth / Myth? (2) Many a time, we go by just the past reputation of what we hear in our friends/acquaintance circle. I am sure, nobody (at least your relative!) would say that the school in which their ward is, is bad. So how rational is to check reputation like this. Secondly, since we are getting our kids admitted in pre-school / nursery and it would be good 14 years by the time he passes 12th Board. This is a huge time period for everything to change especially when the basic characteristic of school intake has changed dramatically. Earlier, for instance in many reputed schools (say DPS Mathura Road) and such schools, the admission was through pulls and pressure of well connected people (and thus ensuring that at least the parents of such kids can afford to spend well on tutions, extra curricular activities, outings, sports, better transportation, etc. more than their poor counterparts in other lesser privileged schools), now it is happening (more or less) on some objective (!) criteria (very stupid though). This imply that the schools now have much lesser control on the intake criteria of the students. Would it not start reflecting in the academic performance in the time to come, when you have more of middle class parents in these schools?. Would it not reflect an entirely new ranking / order of the schools after say 7 - 10 years when it would actually start mattering to us? I think the winner would be the school which can demonstrate and implement very strong processes and systems towards giving education. Some schools, which so far, were just surviving on high quality students intake of the parents who could afford to provide expensive support system, will fall aside. Also, some schools like DPS RK Puram whose claim to fame has been extremely strict Mrs Choona as Principle would change as the key person like this principle retires in years to come. Whereas for other schools say DPS Mathura Road, wherein the new principle MI Hussain (who as earlier principle of DPS Bhilai is extremely reputed), would probably make the things entirely different, for better I suppose. So in that sense, aren't schools like corporate wherein the old reputed companies (like Godrej / business houses) giving way to much agile, faster and better new companies? I feel currently the only parameter which reflects the strong processes / system of the school is how unbiased, objective and clean admission system a school was following for admission. If this process itself was convoluted, it does not inspire too much confidence in me as parent in future discipline they would inculcate in my child, irrespective of the reputation that they currently have. Recent market thing of Satyam computers has shown that how the high priests of reputation have fallen disgracefully. So, is the reputation a really very good criteria or we all are a part of this herd mentality. The decision becomes thus very important as we need to think 10 -15 years ahead, as changing schools later on, is really not a very easy process. Amita Share 22 Comments Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 10:56am Delete Comment u r actually right amita..............each word that u have mentioned. the 'good', 'bad', 'best' terms are very relative to a person. A school that is 'best' for some maynot be 'good' for other. besides the reputation of the school, everone has separate parameters to judge a school. for someone the 'infrastructure' of the school becomes a very big criteria and for other it may lose its importance if school has good academic results over the past years. You have mentioned 3 schools....Goenka, manglam, VV,....if u asl me i have only heard good things about vv. there maybe others who have heard bad about vv and good about goenka and so on. I really would not want to say much on this except that we as parents should have clear heads about what we want for our kids, our family environment (in terms of education and finances) and support system around us. There is a term in hindi 'BHER CHAL'. we should not follow the crowd but decide on our own, keeping in mind many factors including what i and u mentioned. Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 10:58am Delete Comment to add...............given a choice b/w an old established school and a new school that has been running only for 3-4 years..........i will NEVER opt for the new school. Rupi Comment by Rupi on January 21, 2009 at 11:08am Delete Comment Shilpi, i agree with your views.....but, in today's scenario there are so many ppl who have not secured a seat in any school....would they be in a position to make any choice per se.....eventually they will have to go for what is available to them...... Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 11:19am Delete Comment right rupi...................please see, i said...'GIVEN A CHOICE'. we can talk about a school being bad and other being good and I'll go for this and dont go for that....only if we have a choice. i firmly believe in 'BEGGARS ARE NOT CHOSERS'. yes if the result of the new schoolis declared before the reputed one...then its a big decision that u have to make. I took a risk and didnot get my daughter admitted in a new upcoming school in Noida (i would say 'best among new :)), where competition seemed equally tough as it happened be the 1st one to declare the result. i let it go. I was scared about what 'if i dont get into school of my choice'. IF GIVEN A CHOICE.........................what will one opt for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Angella Comment by Angella on January 21, 2009 at 11:22am Delete Comment Hi Amita, United Front family extend a very warm welcome to you. The discussion you have started above covers indeed very good issues for debating as there are views and opinions on both the sides. Thank u for raising them and giving the opportunity for an invigorating discussion. 1. Ur first concern is of the negative influence an expensive school will have on the child, from the perspective of a middle class parent (rich parents may not find it an issue ..). In my opinion, the chances of kids becoming brats and snobs in such schools is high, though not 100%. Not to make them such kids, we parents have to put an extra effort - in making them realise the value of parents' sweat in earning the money, the greatness in adopting a simple way of life, impeccable personality and wisdom as the greatest asset (rather than branded stuff), and so on. If we are able to instill in them the above virtues/values, we would be able to shield them from such unwanted influences otherwise the child has to learn from his mistakes. 2. 'Reputation' may be judged on two scales - (a) one is the subjective scale - such as the relative's view which u have mentioned (b) the other is the objective scale - such as the school's previous result, the permanency of the teachers, the trophies the school has received in various inter-school competitions, the varied exposure provided by the schools - environmental awareness, community service, etc. The subjective scale will vary from person to person and from what perspective he/she is looking at the issue (and on top of that u have mentioned that they may not disclose - halwai aapni methai ko kabhi kharab nahi bolta). The objective scale is more reliable ... but change is part of nature. A school in top 3 today may become after some years a school in top 15 .. but I don't think will degrade to the extent of not being listed in top 30 in a course of 10-14 yrs. If the focus of a school is on the right track then change should not be drastic in its delivery. Amita ji, u r very right when u talk about the effect of the personality of principals on the quality of education in schools. Mrs. Choona has played a major role in pushing up the RK puram branch. They have a policy of admitting the toppers of other schools in their XIth class so that the XII result is impressive in the boards as well the percentage of cracking the engineering and medical entrance tests is high. Otherwise, in Xth result the Vasant Kunj Branch is doing much better in the last 2-3 yrs. The RK puram branch has also made people from Vasant Kunj (C5 block onwards) ineligible to apply in their school. I do subscribe to your argument that the policies, parameters and clean conduct of the admission process goes a long way in promising a good education system ... when the base/foundation itself is faulty, what kind of strong and enduring structure can we expect from the so-called micro builders of this nation. Cheers. karan Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 1:17pm Delete Comment CHILD BECOMING A SPOLIED BRAT IN EXPENSIVE SCHOOL-: what i will say here is, it is not the school but the immediate family and parents who's contribution decides what kind of a person will your child become, the probabilty of the child getting spoiled in Expensive schools is equal to the child getting spoiled in tradional school like BVN/SARDAR PATEL/BAL BHARTI. There are spoiled brats in these schools also. The contribution of parents here is utmost important, it is the family values that ensure that your child doesnt get spoiled not the school. A person can always cross check what kind of a company is his/her child is in the school .Every school teaches discipline, its how that discipline implemented by us parents decide how our child will fare. Regarding the results schools will give after 10-15 yrs...... Schools like DPS RKPURAM/BVN/DPS MATHURA ROAD/SARDAR PATEL will always give good 10th, 12th result as the system from basic stages is academics oriented,the children are taught in a way to give good academic reults, Even schools like GOODLEY in Shalimar bagh gives CBSE TOPPERS EVERY YEAR. Now the point is why schools like Shriram and Vasant Valley has overtaken DPS RK PURAM as first prefrence........ According to me the reason is, these schools focus on overall development of the child and not only academics, the society and economy is opening up, so there are many more oppurtunities in life now as compared to 15 yrs back, so now getting a good academic score is definately important but an average student can also make his living as good as a acadmically best student because oppurtunities has now increased. MY FIRM BELIEF IS -: EVERY CHILD IS BORN WITH A HIDDEN TALENT(QUALITY), IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF US PARENTS TO FIND THAT TALENT IN OUR CHILD AND GIVE HIM ALL THE NECESSARY SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT SO THAT THE CHILD CAN USE THAT TALENT TO EARN A LIVING. THE ROLE OF THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE TO GIVE THE CHILD THE NECESSARY BACKUP IN FORM OF GOOD ACADEMIC GUIDANCE,GOOD INFRASTUCTURE AND GOOD TEACHERS WHO CAN HELP IN BUILDING A SOLID BASE AND GUIDING THE CHILD IN LIFE, ALSO THE KIND OF PEER GROUP THE CHILD FORMS IN SCHOOL IS UTMOST IMPORTANT. Dr Y TOMAR Comment by Dr Y TOMAR on January 21, 2009 at 4:20pm Delete Comment MY FIRM BELIEF IS -: EVERY CHILD IS BORN WITH A HIDDEN TALENT(QUALITY), IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF US PARENTS TO FIND THAT TALENT IN OUR CHILD AND GIVE HIM ALL THE NECESSARY SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT SO THAT THE CHILD CAN USE THAT TALENT TO EARN A LIVING. THE ROLE OF THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE TO GIVE THE CHILD THE NECESSARY BACKUP IN FORM OF GOOD ACADEMIC GUIDANCE,GOOD INFRASTUCTURE AND GOOD TEACHERS WHO CAN HELP IN BUILDING A SOLID BASE AND GUIDING THE CHILD IN LIFE, ALSO THE KIND OF PEER GROUP THE CHILD FORMS IN SCHOOL IS UTMOST IMPORTANT. karan Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 4:53pm Delete Comment Dr Tomarji, kya hua sir..........why did you repeat my lines :)) SPOC(Special Point of Contact) Comment by SPOC(Special Point of Contact) on January 21, 2009 at 7:01pm Delete Comment dont take it in nehgative he might be reiterating ur point:-) Angella Comment by Angella on January 21, 2009 at 7:16pm Delete Comment Dr. Tomar seems to imply that he second u on this point. I guess Karan, u hav expressed it so well that he does not want to add anything else. :) Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 8:48pm Delete Comment I am not taking it in a negitive way .My comment for Dr Tomar was on a very light tone with a Smiling face. Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 22, 2009 at 9:09pm Delete Comment I agree with Amita, Angella, SPOC and Karan. By and large all schools have many rich and spoilt brats and parents role is all important. But in richie rich schools which "now" charge between 60 to 150,000 per annum per child, many middle class people like me cannot afford to send 2 kids. I might to able to scrape by with sending one kid to such a school, but my kid would be the poorest in the class. I dont want him to be the poorest, even if only half the kids are spoilt brats and the other half are nice kids. Better to go to a school where the child will be somewhere in the middle, neither too rich, nor too poor Re: DPS RKP, it was not Chona who elevated it to its current level, it was the previous principal RS Lugani. Chona has continued the status, but many feel it has come down somewhat in recent years. Better to say, other schools have caught up, DPS RKP is still the leader. Sadly, the mother school DPS MR has deteriorated, precicely because of its residential campus and admission policy of accomodating rich and powerful. Recent events in DPS RKP (new hostel, capitation fee based entry etc) are ominous. I would say the Ganguly committee has made for a much better intake in DPS in the last 3 years than in the 3 years before that, when anybody who could pay was allowed in. All schools, DPS VK, Mothers, SPV and Birla not excluded, have continuous entry of bright children throughout the 14 years on the basis of entrance test. Wrong to single out only DPS RKP, other schools results are also biased by the performance of these bright kids. DPS RKP, DPS VK, Birla, Mothers and SPV have truly excellent (and well paid) teachers, so these bright kids benefit by both competition and teaching in middle and higher classes, which they would not have got in their original schools. School of course benefits in the results. It is not a one way street. DPs RKP differs from Birla and Mothers in its attention to sports, shared by DPS VK and SPV as well Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 22, 2009 at 9:12pm Delete Comment One more comment - now that DPS international has come, DPS RKP has refocussed on middle class intake while the upper class intake gets channelled into int school. Better for both and very sensible Angella Comment by Angella on January 23, 2009 at 10:04am Delete Comment Where is Amita ji? We are waiting to hear ur views on the comments given by various members of this forum. karan Comment by karan on January 23, 2009 at 1:46pm Delete Comment I beg to differ with oddysseus Noman in one count.......DPS I is is not just for upper class, it also is quiet good for upper middle and middle class. I read your comments on NA regarding DPS I,those comments were factually wrong, i could not reply there because i discontinued my membership there. karan Comment by karan on January 23, 2009 at 1:59pm Delete Comment Delete Comment I would like to add one thing........ O Noman, i donot have anything persoanl against you, so please don't mind my last statement personally .............. You seem to be a very knowledgeable and intelligent person with strong opinion and will be a assest to this site but i felt you were misinformed regarding DPS I , so i thought i should clarify.:)) we are friends here so dont take my statement personally. Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 23, 2009 at 8:23pm Delete Comment Karan, why dont you tell us more about DPS I? I have only seen their (very posh!) building from outside. I did not apply to it and know little about it. My comments were very general about international schools. Specifically, I would like to know how much their fee per annum is. Also, their class size and whether they use the same playground and coaches as DPS RK Puram karan Comment by karan on January 27, 2009 at 12:42pm Delete Comment I have already posted a thread "Acceptance of A Level ,University of Cambridge" in India, This is the course that is offered by DPSI. As regards to fees it is aprox 7000 per month + 42000 per annum. The student teacher ratio will be 20-25:1 , which they promise to keep till senior secondry.(The fees becomes justified as the student will be getting personal attention.) Mrs Shama Chona, is now the director of DPS I , so this school will be under her dircect supervision in future,hence another plus point. The Senior buliding in Saket is slf sufficient in playgrounds /coaches etc. For further information please visit there site http://www.dpsi.ac.in/ Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 28, 2009 at 12:06am Delete Comment Hi Karan, Thanks for the info. 1.2 L per annum (now) is beyond my budget. I am sure fees will increase later with general salary increase. I therefore never bothered to apply here. I have only seen their RK Puram building. My own feeling is that they are keeping DPS for the middle class (govt servant etc) and DPSI for the upper middle/upper class, who can afford or are planning to educate their children abroad. A lot of people from DPS RKP who were sending their kids abroad would now prefer DPSI. DPS RKP itself has been progressively increasing their playway methods of learning, structured curriculum and non stress teaching methods at their VV branch (posibly less so at EOK, although many people feel EOK is better than VV). I am sure all of this is learned from their DPSI experience. So the benefits flow both ways. So are you planning to keep your kid in DPSI? Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 28, 2009 at 12:14am Delete Comment Amita, your comments are very true. Where the school will be in 14 years time is impossible to predict. Principals do make a huge difference. RS Lugani of DPS RKP had a vision, which made it great in the 70s and 80s (when I was in school). Chona has continued the work, but DPS RKP has not risen higher, the graph has plateaued and others are playing catch up. DPS MR had deteriorated, but it looks like the graph is pointing up again. Unlike many others, I found DPS MR admission process totally transparent. I think people were harking back to the old days when DPS MR had a bad reputation of admitting people on connections or money, when they complained or felt bitter. Residential school in any of the schools admits for a deterioration of the atmosphere. DPS MR, Modern BKR and now DPS RKP are falling into this trap. anyway, 14 years is a long way away. What our kids need then is also imponderable I agree with you on this count that the benefits will definately flow both ways............:-)) kirti Comment by kirti on March 21, 2009 at 2:00pm Delete Comment hi amrita i saw very nice discussion just now. i just joined few days back. I DONT AGREE with shilpi i m leaving old established convent school for new upcoming school srijan…
. Can some parents of wards from high profile schools like KR Mangalam / GD Goenka / Vasant Valley, etc. share their views on this general perception. What is the truth / Myth?
(2) Many a time, we go by just the past reputation of what we hear in our friends/acquaintance circle. I am sure, nobody (at least your relative!) would say that the school in which their ward is, is bad. So how rational is to check reputation like this.
Secondly, since we are getting our kids admitted in pre-school / nursery and it would be good 14 years by the time he passes 12th Board. This is a huge time period for everything to change especially when the basic characteristic of school intake has changed dramatically. Earlier, for instance in many reputed schools (say DPS Mathura Road) and such schools, the admission was through pulls and pressure of well connected people (and thus ensuring that at least the parents of such kids can afford to spend well on tutions, extra curricular activities, outings, sports, better transportation, etc. more than their poor counterparts in other lesser privileged schools), now it is happening (more or less) on some objective (!) criteria (very stupid though). This imply that the schools now have much lesser control on the intake criteria of the students. Would it not start reflecting in the academic performance in the time to come, when you have more of middle class parents in these schools?. Would it not reflect an entirely new ranking / order of the schools after say 7 - 10 years when it would actually start mattering to us?
I think the winner would be the school which can demonstrate and implement very strong processes and systems towards giving education. Some schools, which so far, were just surviving on high quality students intake of the parents who could afford to provide expensive support system, will fall aside.
Also, some schools like DPS RK Puram whose claim to fame has been extremely strict Mrs Choona as Principle would change as the key person like this principle retires in years to come. Whereas for other schools say DPS Mathura Road, wherein the new principle MI Hussain (who as earlier principle of DPS Bhilai is extremely reputed), would probably make the things entirely different, for better I suppose.
So in that sense, aren't schools like corporate wherein the old reputed companies (like Godrej / business houses) giving way to much agile, faster and better new companies?
I feel currently the only parameter which reflects the strong processes / system of the school is how unbiased, objective and clean admission system a school was following for admission. If this process itself was convoluted, it does not inspire too much confidence in me as parent in future discipline they would inculcate in my child, irrespective of the reputation that they currently have.
Recent market thing of Satyam computers has shown that how the high priests of reputation have fallen disgracefully. So, is the reputation a really very good criteria or we all are a part of this herd mentality.
The decision becomes thus very important as we need to think 10 -15 years ahead, as changing schools later on, is really not a very easy process.
Amita
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22 Comments
Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 10:56am
Delete Comment u r actually right amita..............each word that u have mentioned. the 'good', 'bad', 'best' terms are very relative to a person. A school that is 'best' for some maynot be 'good' for other. besides the reputation of the school, everone has separate parameters to judge a school. for someone the 'infrastructure' of the school becomes a very big criteria and for other it may lose its importance if school has good academic results over the past years.
You have mentioned 3 schools....Goenka, manglam, VV,....if u asl me i have only heard good things about vv. there maybe others who have heard bad about vv and good about goenka and so on.
I really would not want to say much on this except that we as parents should have clear heads about what we want for our kids, our family environment (in terms of education and finances) and support system around us. There is a term in hindi 'BHER CHAL'. we should not follow the crowd but decide on our own, keeping in mind many factors including what i and u mentioned.
Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 10:58am
Delete Comment to add...............given a choice b/w an old established school and a new school that has been running only for 3-4 years..........i will NEVER opt for the new school.
Rupi Comment by Rupi on January 21, 2009 at 11:08am
Delete Comment Shilpi, i agree with your views.....but, in today's scenario there are so many ppl who have not secured a seat in any school....would they be in a position to make any choice per se.....eventually they will have to go for what is available to them......
Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 11:19am
Delete Comment right rupi...................please see, i said...'GIVEN A CHOICE'. we can talk about a school being bad and other being good and I'll go for this and dont go for that....only if we have a choice.
i firmly believe in 'BEGGARS ARE NOT CHOSERS'. yes if the result of the new schoolis declared before the reputed one...then its a big decision that u have to make. I took a risk and didnot get my daughter admitted in a new upcoming school in Noida (i would say 'best among new :)), where competition seemed equally tough as it happened be the 1st one to declare the result. i let it go. I was scared about what 'if i dont get into school of my choice'.
IF GIVEN A CHOICE.........................what will one opt for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Angella Comment by Angella on January 21, 2009 at 11:22am
Delete Comment Hi Amita,
United Front family extend a very warm welcome to you. The discussion you have started above covers indeed very good issues for debating as there are views and opinions on both the sides. Thank u for raising them and giving the opportunity for an invigorating discussion.
1. Ur first concern is of the negative influence an expensive school will have on the child, from the perspective of a middle class parent (rich parents may not find it an issue ..). In my opinion, the chances of kids becoming brats and snobs in such schools is high, though not 100%. Not to make them such kids, we parents have to put an extra effort - in making them realise the value of parents' sweat in earning the money, the greatness in adopting a simple way of life, impeccable personality and wisdom as the greatest asset (rather than branded stuff), and so on. If we are able to instill in them the above virtues/values, we would be able to shield them from such unwanted influences otherwise the child has to learn from his mistakes.
2. 'Reputation' may be judged on two scales -
(a) one is the subjective scale - such as the relative's view which u have mentioned
(b) the other is the objective scale - such as the school's previous result, the permanency of the teachers, the trophies the school has received in various inter-school competitions, the varied exposure provided by the schools - environmental awareness, community service, etc.
The subjective scale will vary from person to person and from what perspective he/she is looking at the issue (and on top of that u have mentioned that they may not disclose - halwai aapni methai ko kabhi kharab nahi bolta). The objective scale is more reliable ... but change is part of nature. A school in top 3 today may become after some years a school in top 15 .. but I don't think will degrade to the extent of not being listed in top 30 in a course of 10-14 yrs.
If the focus of a school is on the right track then change should not be drastic in its delivery.
Amita ji, u r very right when u talk about the effect of the personality of principals on the quality of education in schools. Mrs. Choona has played a major role in pushing up the RK puram branch. They have a policy of admitting the toppers of other schools in their XIth class so that the XII result is impressive in the boards as well the percentage of cracking the engineering and medical entrance tests is high. Otherwise, in Xth result the Vasant Kunj Branch is doing much better in the last 2-3 yrs. The RK puram branch has also made people from Vasant Kunj (C5 block onwards) ineligible to apply in their school.
I do subscribe to your argument that the policies, parameters and clean conduct of the admission process goes a long way in promising a good education system ... when the base/foundation itself is faulty, what kind of strong and enduring structure can we expect from the so-called micro builders of this nation.
Cheers.
karan Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 1:17pm
Delete Comment CHILD BECOMING A SPOLIED BRAT IN EXPENSIVE SCHOOL-: what i will say here is, it is not the school but the immediate family and parents who's contribution decides what kind of a person will your child become, the probabilty of the child getting spoiled in Expensive schools is equal to the child getting spoiled in tradional school like BVN/SARDAR PATEL/BAL BHARTI.
There are spoiled brats in these schools also. The contribution of parents here is utmost important, it is the family values that ensure that your child doesnt get spoiled not the school.
A person can always cross check what kind of a company is his/her child is in the school .Every school teaches discipline, its how that discipline implemented by us parents decide how our child will fare.
Regarding the results schools will give after 10-15 yrs...... Schools like DPS RKPURAM/BVN/DPS MATHURA ROAD/SARDAR PATEL will always give good 10th, 12th result as the system from basic stages is academics oriented,the children are taught in a way to give good academic reults, Even schools like GOODLEY in Shalimar bagh gives CBSE TOPPERS EVERY YEAR.
Now the point is why schools like Shriram and Vasant Valley has overtaken DPS RK PURAM as first prefrence........ According to me the reason is, these schools focus on overall development of the child and not only academics, the society and economy is opening up, so there are many more oppurtunities in life now as compared to 15 yrs back, so now getting a good academic score is definately important but an average student can also make his living as good as a acadmically best student because oppurtunities has now increased.
MY FIRM BELIEF IS -: EVERY CHILD IS BORN WITH A HIDDEN TALENT(QUALITY), IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF US PARENTS TO FIND THAT TALENT IN OUR CHILD AND GIVE HIM ALL THE NECESSARY SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT SO THAT THE CHILD CAN USE THAT TALENT TO EARN A LIVING. THE ROLE OF THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE TO GIVE THE CHILD THE NECESSARY BACKUP IN FORM OF GOOD ACADEMIC GUIDANCE,GOOD INFRASTUCTURE AND GOOD TEACHERS WHO CAN HELP IN BUILDING A SOLID BASE AND GUIDING THE CHILD IN LIFE, ALSO THE KIND OF PEER GROUP THE CHILD FORMS IN SCHOOL IS UTMOST IMPORTANT.
Dr Y TOMAR Comment by Dr Y TOMAR on January 21, 2009 at 4:20pm
Delete Comment MY FIRM BELIEF IS -: EVERY CHILD IS BORN WITH A HIDDEN TALENT(QUALITY), IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF US PARENTS TO FIND THAT TALENT IN OUR CHILD AND GIVE HIM ALL THE NECESSARY SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT SO THAT THE CHILD CAN USE THAT TALENT TO EARN A LIVING. THE ROLE OF THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE TO GIVE THE CHILD THE NECESSARY BACKUP IN FORM OF GOOD ACADEMIC GUIDANCE,GOOD INFRASTUCTURE AND GOOD TEACHERS WHO CAN HELP IN BUILDING A SOLID BASE AND GUIDING THE CHILD IN LIFE, ALSO THE KIND OF PEER GROUP THE CHILD FORMS IN SCHOOL IS UTMOST IMPORTANT.
karan Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 4:53pm
Delete Comment Dr Tomarji, kya hua sir..........why did you repeat my lines :))
SPOC(Special Point of Contact) Comment by SPOC(Special Point of Contact) on January 21, 2009 at 7:01pm
Delete Comment dont take it in nehgative he might be reiterating ur point:-)
Angella Comment by Angella on January 21, 2009 at 7:16pm
Delete Comment Dr. Tomar seems to imply that he second u on this point. I guess Karan, u hav expressed it so well that he does not want to add anything else. :)
Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 8:48pm
Delete Comment I am not taking it in a negitive way .My comment for Dr Tomar was on a very light tone with a
Smiling face.
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 22, 2009 at 9:09pm
Delete Comment I agree with Amita, Angella, SPOC and Karan. By and large all schools have many rich and spoilt brats and parents role is all important.
But in richie rich schools which "now" charge between 60 to 150,000 per annum per child, many middle class people like me cannot afford to send 2 kids. I might to able to scrape by with sending one kid to such a school, but my kid would be the poorest in the class. I dont want him to be the poorest, even if only half the kids are spoilt brats and the other half are nice kids. Better to go to a school where the child will be somewhere in the middle, neither too rich, nor too poor
Re: DPS RKP, it was not Chona who elevated it to its current level, it was the previous principal RS Lugani. Chona has continued the status, but many feel it has come down somewhat in recent years. Better to say, other schools have caught up, DPS RKP is still the leader. Sadly, the mother school DPS MR has deteriorated, precicely because of its residential campus and admission policy of accomodating rich and powerful. Recent events in DPS RKP (new hostel, capitation fee based entry etc) are ominous. I would say the Ganguly committee has made for a much better intake in DPS in the last 3 years than in the 3 years before that, when anybody who could pay was allowed in.
All schools, DPS VK, Mothers, SPV and Birla not excluded, have continuous entry of bright children throughout the 14 years on the basis of entrance test. Wrong to single out only DPS RKP, other schools results are also biased by the performance of these bright kids.
DPS RKP, DPS VK, Birla, Mothers and SPV have truly excellent (and well paid) teachers, so these bright kids benefit by both competition and teaching in middle and higher classes, which they would not have got in their original schools. School of course benefits in the results. It is not a one way street.
DPs RKP differs from Birla and Mothers in its attention to sports, shared by DPS VK and SPV as well
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 22, 2009 at 9:12pm
Delete Comment One more comment - now that DPS international has come, DPS RKP has refocussed on middle class intake while the upper class intake gets channelled into int school. Better for both and very sensible
Angella Comment by Angella on January 23, 2009 at 10:04am
Delete Comment Where is Amita ji? We are waiting to hear ur views on the comments given by various members of this forum.
karan Comment by karan on January 23, 2009 at 1:46pm
Delete Comment I beg to differ with oddysseus Noman in one count.......DPS I is is not just for upper class, it also is quiet good for upper middle and middle class.
I read your comments on NA regarding DPS I,those comments were factually wrong, i could not reply there because i discontinued my membership there.
karan Comment by karan on January 23, 2009 at 1:59pm
Delete Comment Delete Comment I would like to add one thing........ O Noman, i donot have anything persoanl against you, so please don't mind my last statement personally .............. You seem to be a very knowledgeable and intelligent person with strong opinion and will be a assest to this site but i felt you were misinformed regarding DPS I , so i thought i should clarify.:)) we are friends here so dont take my statement personally.
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 23, 2009 at 8:23pm
Delete Comment Karan, why dont you tell us more about DPS I? I have only seen their (very posh!) building from outside. I did not apply to it and know little about it. My comments were very general about international schools.
Specifically, I would like to know how much their fee per annum is. Also, their class size and whether they use the same playground and coaches as DPS RK Puram
karan Comment by karan on January 27, 2009 at 12:42pm
Delete Comment I have already posted a thread "Acceptance of A Level ,University of Cambridge" in India, This is the course that is offered by DPSI.
As regards to fees it is aprox 7000 per month + 42000 per annum.
The student teacher ratio will be 20-25:1 , which they promise to keep till senior secondry.(The fees becomes justified as the student will be getting personal attention.)
Mrs Shama Chona, is now the director of DPS I , so this school will be under her dircect supervision in future,hence another plus point.
The Senior buliding in Saket is slf sufficient in playgrounds /coaches etc.
For further information please visit there site
http://www.dpsi.ac.in/
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 28, 2009 at 12:06am
Delete Comment Hi Karan,
Thanks for the info.
1.2 L per annum (now) is beyond my budget. I am sure fees will increase later with general salary increase. I therefore never bothered to apply here.
I have only seen their RK Puram building. My own feeling is that they are keeping DPS for the middle class (govt servant etc) and DPSI for the upper middle/upper class, who can afford or are planning to educate their children abroad. A lot of people from DPS RKP who were sending their kids abroad would now prefer DPSI.
DPS RKP itself has been progressively increasing their playway methods of learning, structured curriculum and non stress teaching methods at their VV branch (posibly less so at EOK, although many people feel EOK is better than VV). I am sure all of this is learned from their DPSI experience. So the benefits flow both ways.
So are you planning to keep your kid in DPSI?
Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 28, 2009 at 12:14am
Delete Comment Amita, your comments are very true. Where the school will be in 14 years time is impossible to predict.
Principals do make a huge difference. RS Lugani of DPS RKP had a vision, which made it great in the 70s and 80s (when I was in school). Chona has continued the work, but DPS RKP has not risen higher, the graph has plateaued and others are playing catch up.
DPS MR had deteriorated, but it looks like the graph is pointing up again. Unlike many others, I found DPS MR admission process totally transparent. I think people were harking back to the old days when DPS MR had a bad reputation of admitting people on connections or money, when they complained or felt bitter.
Residential school in any of the schools admits for a deterioration of the atmosphere. DPS MR, Modern BKR and now DPS RKP are falling into this trap.
anyway, 14 years is a long way away. What our kids need then is also imponderable
I agree with you on this count that the benefits will definately flow both ways............:-))
kirti Comment by kirti on March 21, 2009 at 2:00pm
Delete Comment hi amrita i saw very nice discussion just now. i just joined few days back.
I DONT AGREE with shilpi i m leaving old established convent school for new upcoming school srijan
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Comment by deepak gupta on November 9, 2009 at 4:50pm Delete Comment i believe a school which attracts students from financially sound families,wud spoil the kid from a middle class family.i have a cousin who studied in dehradoon,he dont understands the importance of money at all,in 6th class he came on one month holidays to home and pressured his parents to buy him a scooty,then in 8th class he pressurised his parents for a hero honda bike,in 9th a new bike,after 10th class he wanted a personal car which he finally got in 12th.excpet the car all earlier bikes or scooty were used exclusively for a month.he had friends from diplomats families or from foreign countries,fancy mobiles or gadgets like i-pod were something like a toy a child wud from from a street vendor,use for few days and throw it away.he tasted alchohal when they hosted fairwell for their class 10th seniors,and he was in hostel,they bribed the watchman,who bought them liquor.apart from this,he learned to sniff white fluid meant for erasing typewriter's error's and later his friend circle introduced him to different things which can be categorised into drugs.
he didnt study beyond 12th class,today he is a problem for whole of his family.he was the most dear child of his mother,and she wanted him to grow into a genius,thats why she coped with all the expenses of a costly school which were other wise not affordable to them.today all our family has learned the drwabacks.i have few other such examples.
I believe reputations of schools are not presumed to be dependent on results,if they have students from rich or famous class,they will gain reputation,and people run after them.its basically the charm of a brand,not the product.…
ators point at university admissions being an important reason for students opting for the two national boards.
Gurgaon-based engineer Saksham Trivedi had a tough time choosing a school for his nine-year-old. The choice was limited to Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE) and Indian Certificate of Secondary Education (ICSE). After much deliberation, he enrolled his boy in a CBSE-affiliated school. “This is an all-India education board and is the safest bet in case I have to relocate,” is the logic that guided his choice.
Initially happy with the quality and standard of education, Trivedi slowly began to feel that the curriculum lacked skill development and did not give his child enough freedom to exploit his potential. He then shifted his son Akul to a renowned ICSE school nearby. “I researched the syllabus and even though I felt I should have done the comparison before, the ICSE system appealed more in terms of aptitude development and thoroughness. Had I not compared, I could have not given my boy a chance to be groomed better,” he says. Fortunately, Akul easily adapted to ICSE and seems happy with the change. “My previous school did not give me the freedom to choose subjects but here I have many options, there is no rote learning,” says Akul.
The debate between concerned parents and educators on whether a CBSE or an ICSE system is better has been going on for years. With the increasing numbers of schools offering the International Baccalaureate, International General Certificate of Secondary Education (IGCSE) from University of Cambridge International Examinations and the Waldorf system; the debate has widened, providing both stress and options to parents.
Not surprisingly with 12 million students in 12,504 schools including 1,002 Kendriya Vidyalayas, 1,944 government schools, 8,966 independent schools, 562 Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalayas and 30 Central Tibetan Schools, CBSE remains the hot favourite, followed by ICSE with 1,900 schools in India and about 1,40,878 students (including 232 abroad). Experts believe that this bent can be credited to their accessibility and the result-orientated approach in content.
CBSE Vs ICSE
Case 1: This year, Delhi boy Paras Sharma topped the Class XII CBSE exams with 99 per cent. A student of commerce from Lancer Convent School, Rohini, North Delhi, Sharma scored a perfect 100 in mathematics, accountancy, economics and business studies and 95 in English. A total of 944,721 students took the Class XII board examinations in India and abroad, which was also an increase of 15.81 per cent over 2012.
Case 2: Bhuvaniya Vijay, a student of Class XII at St Joseph’s Academy in Dehradun, was the overall topper in ICSE exams with a score of 99 per cent. Over 5 lakh students took the ICSE Examination 2013 and ISC Examination 2013 across the country.
Clearly the two cases in point show how the two apex Indian boards remain at the top of their game. While many parents point at inflated scores as a good sign for admission in higher education institutes, academic proponents say it is the “competent” system which gives rise to students working harder.
Dhriti Malhotra, Principal, Manav Rachna International School, Gurgaon, which is affiliated to CBSE says, “The CBSE syllabus is comparatively more rational and scientific in its approach. It has been designed for a specific year and is divided into various segments and every segment is given a specific number of periods so that it can be completely and thoroughly taught in one year. As a result, the CBSE system enables the teachers to prepare the teaching of various subjects in a coherent manner. Moreover, this system helps the students allocate time to different subjects in a balanced way.”
Lata Vaidhyanathan, principal of Modern School, Barakhamba Road, New Delhi agrees. “I have been a part of the CBSE deliberation for many years and I believe in its national curriculum. I have witnessed significant changes in the last two years and it has only led to its betterment. You cannot wait to change; there has been an adoption of a great reform system. So naturally, I am a great votary of CBSE,” Vaidyanathan says, adding that from an educator’s perspective, the CBSE system provides many opportunities to students.
Pramod Sharma, Director and Principal of Genesis Global School, Noida, adds another interesting point about the two boards. “Both CBSE and ICSE (CISCE) have slightly different focus in terms of course content. The course content in CBSE is more focused towards science and mathematics with lots of attention paid to application of knowledge. CISCE (ICSE), on the other hand, is more balanced with equal focus on language, arts and science. Both the boards have undergone a significant change over the last 10 years and the focus has shifted from passive learning to learning through experience and experimentation. The Formative Assessment in CBSE is largely based on this concept,” he says.
University woes
Some educators point at university admissions being an important reason for students opting for the two national boards. With inflated cut-offs at apex varsities like University of Delhi, the primary concern for parents has shifted to securing a higher percentage and CBSE appears to score brownie points on that front.
Prathmesh Kumar, a Mumbai-based ad-man whose daughter secured 96.72 per cent in CBSE exams this year says, “When we enrolled our daughter in school, our focus was not really to examine the various boards but to see her get through a good college. And though she has many options in Mumbai, she is hell-bent on getting through Delhi University.” He adds that the CBSE examination system gives a wider option to students now, especially with the astounding number of 95 per cent and above scorers this year.
Even as this “trend” of high scores in CBSE is being seen as a mark of competence, academics say this is a result of some loopholes. Gowri Ishvaran, founding principal of Sanskriti School and Chief Executive Officer of The Global Education & Leadership Foundation (tGELF), New Delhi says, “The one factor which makes Indian education boards weak has not just got to do with the syllabus but also the way in which students are assessed. It’s not just the way marks are distributed but also in the way question papers are set. It is becoming difficult each day to even sneeze in the direction of University of Delhi, with cut-offs reaching the roof.”
Global prospects
Interestingly, players such as IB and IGCSE have also managed to carve a niche for themselves with many schools now catering to the “expat and NRI community.” Both the international boards came to Indian shores years ago, but in the last five years, the number of schools tying up with them has shot up significantly. While there were a mere eight institutes offering the IB programme in 2000, the number of schools offering IGCSE was so insignificant that the board did not even have records of its presence in India in 2000. However, the scene has significantly changed. Currently there are 197 schools in India offering a Cambridge education, while 99 others impart the Geneva-imported IB programme and Maharashtra, with 109 IB and IGCSE schools, leads the tally, followed by Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh.
Vanita Uppal, Principal of The British School, New Delhi, which runs on an IB system says, “Given the statistics, the IB system would certainly appear to be less popular. But there is an increased understanding about the opportunities it offers, especially as it resonates with the academic ambitions of a generation wanting more from its school experience. This drive has trickled down from keen parents.”
She adds that the fewer numbers of parents wanting to enroll their wards into this system can be attributed to the fact that an IB Diploma programme is considered more challenging, exclusive and expensive. “However, the most important factor is that it is different from the present framework available in India. The core focus of IB lies in preparing an independent learner and in the process, the curriculum, student handling, fee structure, assessment, all are customised to IB offerings. Therefore, with change, misconceptions and doubt do arise but I am sure with a steady outflow of accurate information, there will be a better understanding of the offer,” says Uppal.
Not just educators, a number of urban parents are now vying for the international education systems. Alaknanda Mehra, a 28-year-old graphic designer from Mumbai says, “After I relocated with my husband to Mumbai a year back, we were desperately looking for a good school for my 12-year-old daughter. Apart from the brand of the school what concerned me more was its curriculum. She was already in a CBSE mode school in Bangalore, but I wanted her to get into an IB school so we can send her abroad post Class XII. We finally found one in Tardeo, Mumbai,” she says.
In keeping with this current trend, even CBSE started an international programme called CBSE-i. The programme was introduced in Classes I and IX in 2010 and in Classes II, VI and X in 2011. Last year, it was further extended to classes III, VII and XI. The Performance Analysis Test (PAT) which was piloted in Grade IX of CBSE-i was extended to Grade X in four subjects of verbal ability, science, mathematics and social science and was being offered to some select schools of India also as a pilot project. To begin with, the Board has implemented this curriculum in about 29 schools in Middle East and South-Asia.
Apart from IB, IGCSE is also gaining in popularity among urban parents. Sharma says, “IGCSE from Cambridge International Examinations is recognised as a Class X examination by all Indian national and state boards. IBDP is also recognised as being equivalent to any national Class XII examination. And acceptance of these two curriculums is increasing in India since parents now want their children to opt out of the race for marks option and even though these are expensive curriculums, a larger percentage of the parent-body is able to afford the high costs,” he says.
Differentiating between the two prominent international schooling systems in India, Sharma says that the IGCSE and IB programmes are more practical and application-based and have a broader spectrum of subjects that lead to all-round development and are more challenging than Indian educational boards and test student knowledge, not their memory and speed.
Assessment criteria
According to a research paper by a National Council of Education Research and Training (NCERT) official submitted to the International Association for Educational Assessment, the present system of assessment and evaluation for school education in India is exam-based. The research paper states, “Assessment focuses only on cognitive learning outcomes and in the process, co-curricular domains are neglected, even though co-curricular areas are an equally important and significant part of child development. Even in curricular areas, the focus is on rote learning and memorisation, characterised by a neglect of higher mental abilities such as critical thinking, problem solving and creative ability.”
“The current system of assessment especially in CBSE cannot be labelled the best even after changes introduced in the National Curriculum Framework (NCF) 2005, which were developed to look into every aspect of school education,” says the NCERT official.
The NCF document stated that examinations require systemic reforms in the context of evaluation and assessment. It also attributed the high failure rates, increasing number of school dropouts, unhealthy competition, stress, nervous breakdowns and suicides among learners to the evaluation system. This was and still is perceived to be a major hindrance in the CBSE system of education. However, even the recent changes such as introduction of Continuous and Comprehensive Education (CCE) in 2009 where as a part of this new system, student’s marks were replaced by grades which were evaluated through a series of curricular and extra-curricular evaluations along with academics; received much flak from state boards and KVs given its liberal assessment criteria. This is perhaps what differentiates it from other boards such as ICSE which lay emphasis on skill development rather than rote learning.
Uppal says, “I am a product of the ICSE system. I have taught CBSE and have been a CBSE examiner. Today, I run an IB school. The CBSE is an examining Board, the purpose of which is to offer standardised education to students across social, urban and rural divides in India. The CBSE aims to cater to every student in the country and sees its provision as universal in its offering. Meanwhile, ICSE, from its very genesis, was a system that thought a little differently. There was adequate opportunity for developing skills of independent research and creativity.”
However, it cannot be denied that over a period of time the numbers of ICSE schools have decreased driven largely by the demands of universities and entrance examinations, the syllabus of which is based on the CBSE curriculum. “Even though ICSE does offer a sound curriculum framework, the above factors have been a serious impediment to its acceptance by other schools,” she says.
In comparison with assessment policies of other board such as IB, it can be noted that it operates on an entirely different level, offering qualifications which are international, transferable and portable. “When a school subscribes to the IB, it also by implication subscribes to a different pedagogical approach, innovative assessment methodologies and teacher training mandates, to name a few. In order to ensure the quality and consistency of the educational offer, the IB offers standardised training for all school teachers and leaders, in line with best international practice and their mission. In addition, the focus is on developing students who match the IB Learner Profile and are prepared to be principled, balanced, caring, problem solvers of the future,” says Uppal.
As for IGCSE, it is recognised as a Class X examination by all Indian national and state boards.
The IGCSE and IB programmes are more practical and application-based. Both have a broader spectrum of subjects that lead to all-round development. Both are more challenging than Indian boards and test students’ knowledge, not memory and speed. But the challenge is in the quality of assignments and not in the extent of the syllabi.
Even though scoring a higher percentage is more likely to be seen in CBSE than in other board including ICSE, the point of debate is that assessment is being done in order to facilitate admission to a Hindu or Stephens.
Stepping stones
Amid the chaos of university entrances in the country, people often tend to forget to take a close look at the foundation courses which prepare students for admissions in schools with these prominent education systems. And even though the race to reach the top of the ladder—whether it be for marks or university entrances—seems to begin in Class X, parents say its preparation for that goal begins earlier.
Sumit Vohra who founded Admissionsnursery.com a few years back after he faced several problems getting his ward into the nursery class of Delhi schools says, “The debate between choosing one board over another is never ending but from a parents’ point of view, there are pros and cons to consider. CBSE is undoubtedly the most popular education board in the country and the fact that its curriculum is considered helpful for those applying for PMT or engineering entrances is an added advantage to it; whereas students sitting for ICSE exams have to coach separately for such professional entrances.”
His website has many anxious parents commenting and asking for help with their children’s admission, almost every day. Vohra says the chaos begins from January and pretty much goes on till the end of the year given the various boards now. “As far as international competence is concerned, we now have International Baccalaureate (IB) and Cambridge system of education giving serious competition to ICSE and CBSE. While IB is most favourable to children of expats and those wanting to send their students abroad post Class XII, one must remember that it is also expensive. Cambridge is also catching up, though the number of Cambridge schools in India is limited. The good thing about an IB system is that there are no prescribed textbooks and skill development is given importance since the overall curriculum is competent,” he says. Vohra adds that such a system is better after Class X, since it prepares students for higher studies abroad.
Even as the debate over whose shirt is whiter than the other continues, the final call remains in the hands of informed parents.
So you know your boards
How is an IB school curriculum different from that of CBSE/ICSE?
IB Diploma Programme (IBDP) students must choose one subject from each of five groups, ensuring breadth of knowledge and understanding in their best language, additional language(s), social sciences, experimental sciences and mathematics. Students may choose either an arts subject from Group 6 or a second subject from Groups 1 to 5. There are three core elements of IBDP which distinguish it from all other pre-university programme. These are:
■ Extended Essay: An independent research work, culminating in a 4,000-word paper. It allows students to engage in in-depth study of a chosen subject, which can come from any of the six areas of knowledge. During this process, emphasis is given on developing the capacity to analyse, synthesise and evaluate knowledge.
■ Theory of Knowledge: TOK aims at developing a coherent approach to learning that unifies the academic disciplines. In this course on critical thinking, students inquire into the nature of knowing and deepen their understanding of knowledge as a human construction. Students are expected to make an oral presentation and write a 1,500 word essay which is assessed and graded.
■ Creativity, Action, Service: CAS, as it is known, aims to engage students in a range of activities. These can vary from enhancing physical activity, arts or even creative thinking. Each student must dedicate 150 hours to CAS to earn the full Diploma.
How is IGCSE different from CBSE/ICSE?
IGCSE is a comprehensive two-year programme, spread over Class IX and X, with final examinations offered every year in May and November. Its assessment is conducted by two UK assessment bodies—Edexcel (also known as London Examinations) and Cambridge International Examinations (CIE). A student who has passed IGCSE is eligible for any +2 level qualification, like Class XII CBSE/ ICSE or any international pre-university programme, like the IB Diploma, Advanced Placement Diploma (US), and A/AS Level & AICE (UK). Assessment is not limited to conventional written papers and they consist of a variety of tests. It is aimed at a wide ability range of students, with an eight-point grading scale, from A+ to G, with A+ being the highest.
Facts at a glance
CBSE was officially started in 1962 with 309 schools and today has 12 million students in 12,504 schools including 1,002 Kendriya Vidhyalayas, 1,944 government schools, 8,966 independent schools, 562 Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalayas and 30 Central Tibetan Schools.
ICSE is available in 1,900 schools in India catering to about 1,40,878 students (including 232 abroad)
At present, there are 197 schools in India offering a Cambridge education while 99 others impart the Geneva-imported IB programme and Maharashtra, with 109 IB and IGCSE schools, leads the tally, followed by Karnataka coming a distant second, and Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh.
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