*Thoughts invited - (1) Expensive schools means brat kid and (2) Past reputation vs future prospects

I am curious to invite group members views on

(1) Does Expensive schools mean that the kid would necessarily / probably turn into a brat, would demand for un-affordable things from the parents, etc... Can some parents of wards from high profile schools like KR Mangalam / GD Goenka / Vasant Valley, etc. share their views on this general perception. What is the truth / Myth?

(2) Many a time, we go by just the past reputation of what we hear in our friends/acquaintance circle. I am sure, nobody (at least your relative!) would say that the school in which their ward is, is bad. So how rational is to check reputation like this.

Secondly, since we are getting our kids admitted in pre-school / nursery and it would be good 14 years by the time he passes 12th Board. This is a huge time period for everything to change especially when the basic characteristic of school intake has changed dramatically. Earlier, for instance in many reputed schools (say DPS Mathura Road) and such schools, the admission was through pulls and pressure of well connected people (and thus ensuring that at least the parents of such kids can afford to spend well on tutions, extra curricular activities, outings, sports, better transportation, etc. more than their poor counterparts in other lesser privileged schools), now it is happening (more or less) on some objective (!) criteria (very stupid though). This imply that the schools now have much lesser control on the intake criteria of the students. Would it not start reflecting in the academic performance in the time to come, when you have more of middle class parents in these schools?. Would it not reflect an entirely new ranking / order of the schools after say 7 - 10 years when it would actually start mattering to us?

I think the winner would be the school which can demonstrate and implement very strong processes and systems towards giving education. Some schools, which so far, were just surviving on high quality students intake of the parents who could afford to provide expensive support system, will fall aside.

Also, some schools like DPS RK Puram whose claim to fame has been extremely strict Mrs Choona as Principle would change as the key person like this principle retires in years to come. Whereas for other schools say DPS Mathura Road, wherein the new principle MI Hussain (who as earlier principle of DPS Bhilai is extremely reputed), would probably make the things entirely different, for better I suppose.

So in that sense, aren't schools like corporate wherein the old reputed companies (like Godrej / business houses) giving way to much agile, faster and better new companies?

I feel currently the only parameter which reflects the strong processes / system of the school is how unbiased, objective and clean admission system a school was following for admission. If this process itself was convoluted, it does not inspire too much confidence in me as parent in future discipline they would inculcate in my child, irrespective of the reputation that they currently have.

Recent market thing of Satyam computers has shown that how the high priests of reputation have fallen disgracefully. So, is the reputation a really very good criteria or we all are a part of this herd mentality.

The decision becomes thus very important as we need to think 10 -15 years ahead, as changing schools later on, is really not a very easy process.

Amita

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22 Comments

Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 10:56am
Delete Comment u r actually right amita..............each word that u have mentioned. the 'good', 'bad', 'best' terms are very relative to a person. A school that is 'best' for some maynot be 'good' for other. besides the reputation of the school, everone has separate parameters to judge a school. for someone the 'infrastructure' of the school becomes a very big criteria and for other it may lose its importance if school has good academic results over the past years.

You have mentioned 3 schools....Goenka, manglam, VV,....if u asl me i have only heard good things about vv. there maybe others who have heard bad about vv and good about goenka and so on.

I really would not want to say much on this except that we as parents should have clear heads about what we want for our kids, our family environment (in terms of education and finances) and support system around us. There is a term in hindi 'BHER CHAL'. we should not follow the crowd but decide on our own, keeping in mind many factors including what i and u mentioned.

Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 10:58am
Delete Comment to add...............given a choice b/w an old established school and a new school that has been running only for 3-4 years..........i will NEVER opt for the new school.

Rupi Comment by Rupi on January 21, 2009 at 11:08am
Delete Comment Shilpi, i agree with your views.....but, in today's scenario there are so many ppl who have not secured a seat in any school....would they be in a position to make any choice per se.....eventually they will have to go for what is available to them......

Shilpi Comment by Shilpi on January 21, 2009 at 11:19am
Delete Comment right rupi...................please see, i said...'GIVEN A CHOICE'. we can talk about a school being bad and other being good and I'll go for this and dont go for that....only if we have a choice.

i firmly believe in 'BEGGARS ARE NOT CHOSERS'. yes if the result of the new schoolis declared before the reputed one...then its a big decision that u have to make. I took a risk and didnot get my daughter admitted in a new upcoming school in Noida (i would say 'best among new :)), where competition seemed equally tough as it happened be the 1st one to declare the result. i let it go. I was scared about what 'if i dont get into school of my choice'.

IF GIVEN A CHOICE.........................what will one opt for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Angella Comment by Angella on January 21, 2009 at 11:22am
Delete Comment Hi Amita,

United Front family extend a very warm welcome to you. The discussion you have started above covers indeed very good issues for debating as there are views and opinions on both the sides. Thank u for raising them and giving the opportunity for an invigorating discussion.

1. Ur first concern is of the negative influence an expensive school will have on the child, from the perspective of a middle class parent (rich parents may not find it an issue ..). In my opinion, the chances of kids becoming brats and snobs in such schools is high, though not 100%. Not to make them such kids, we parents have to put an extra effort - in making them realise the value of parents' sweat in earning the money, the greatness in adopting a simple way of life, impeccable personality and wisdom as the greatest asset (rather than branded stuff), and so on. If we are able to instill in them the above virtues/values, we would be able to shield them from such unwanted influences otherwise the child has to learn from his mistakes.

2. 'Reputation' may be judged on two scales -
(a) one is the subjective scale - such as the relative's view which u have mentioned
(b) the other is the objective scale - such as the school's previous result, the permanency of the teachers, the trophies the school has received in various inter-school competitions, the varied exposure provided by the schools - environmental awareness, community service, etc.
The subjective scale will vary from person to person and from what perspective he/she is looking at the issue (and on top of that u have mentioned that they may not disclose - halwai aapni methai ko kabhi kharab nahi bolta). The objective scale is more reliable ... but change is part of nature. A school in top 3 today may become after some years a school in top 15 .. but I don't think will degrade to the extent of not being listed in top 30 in a course of 10-14 yrs.
If the focus of a school is on the right track then change should not be drastic in its delivery.

Amita ji, u r very right when u talk about the effect of the personality of principals on the quality of education in schools. Mrs. Choona has played a major role in pushing up the RK puram branch. They have a policy of admitting the toppers of other schools in their XIth class so that the XII result is impressive in the boards as well the percentage of cracking the engineering and medical entrance tests is high. Otherwise, in Xth result the Vasant Kunj Branch is doing much better in the last 2-3 yrs. The RK puram branch has also made people from Vasant Kunj (C5 block onwards) ineligible to apply in their school.

I do subscribe to your argument that the policies, parameters and clean conduct of the admission process goes a long way in promising a good education system ... when the base/foundation itself is faulty, what kind of strong and enduring structure can we expect from the so-called micro builders of this nation.

Cheers.

karan Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 1:17pm
Delete Comment CHILD BECOMING A SPOLIED BRAT IN EXPENSIVE SCHOOL-: what i will say here is, it is not the school but the immediate family and parents who's contribution decides what kind of a person will your child become, the probabilty of the child getting spoiled in Expensive schools is equal to the child getting spoiled in tradional school like BVN/SARDAR PATEL/BAL BHARTI.
There are spoiled brats in these schools also. The contribution of parents here is utmost important, it is the family values that ensure that your child doesnt get spoiled not the school.
A person can always cross check what kind of a company is his/her child is in the school .Every school teaches discipline, its how that discipline implemented by us parents decide how our child will fare.
Regarding the results schools will give after 10-15 yrs...... Schools like DPS RKPURAM/BVN/DPS MATHURA ROAD/SARDAR PATEL will always give good 10th, 12th result as the system from basic stages is academics oriented,the children are taught in a way to give good academic reults, Even schools like GOODLEY in Shalimar bagh gives CBSE TOPPERS EVERY YEAR.
Now the point is why schools like Shriram and Vasant Valley has overtaken DPS RK PURAM as first prefrence........ According to me the reason is, these schools focus on overall development of the child and not only academics, the society and economy is opening up, so there are many more oppurtunities in life now as compared to 15 yrs back, so now getting a good academic score is definately important but an average student can also make his living as good as a acadmically best student because oppurtunities has now increased.

MY FIRM BELIEF IS -: EVERY CHILD IS BORN WITH A HIDDEN TALENT(QUALITY), IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF US PARENTS TO FIND THAT TALENT IN OUR CHILD AND GIVE HIM ALL THE NECESSARY SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT SO THAT THE CHILD CAN USE THAT TALENT TO EARN A LIVING. THE ROLE OF THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE TO GIVE THE CHILD THE NECESSARY BACKUP IN FORM OF GOOD ACADEMIC GUIDANCE,GOOD INFRASTUCTURE AND GOOD TEACHERS WHO CAN HELP IN BUILDING A SOLID BASE AND GUIDING THE CHILD IN LIFE, ALSO THE KIND OF PEER GROUP THE CHILD FORMS IN SCHOOL IS UTMOST IMPORTANT.

Dr Y TOMAR Comment by Dr Y TOMAR on January 21, 2009 at 4:20pm
Delete Comment MY FIRM BELIEF IS -: EVERY CHILD IS BORN WITH A HIDDEN TALENT(QUALITY), IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF US PARENTS TO FIND THAT TALENT IN OUR CHILD AND GIVE HIM ALL THE NECESSARY SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGEMENT SO THAT THE CHILD CAN USE THAT TALENT TO EARN A LIVING. THE ROLE OF THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE TO GIVE THE CHILD THE NECESSARY BACKUP IN FORM OF GOOD ACADEMIC GUIDANCE,GOOD INFRASTUCTURE AND GOOD TEACHERS WHO CAN HELP IN BUILDING A SOLID BASE AND GUIDING THE CHILD IN LIFE, ALSO THE KIND OF PEER GROUP THE CHILD FORMS IN SCHOOL IS UTMOST IMPORTANT.

karan Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 4:53pm
Delete Comment Dr Tomarji, kya hua sir..........why did you repeat my lines :))

SPOC(Special Point of Contact) Comment by SPOC(Special Point of Contact) on January 21, 2009 at 7:01pm
Delete Comment dont take it in nehgative he might be reiterating ur point:-)

Angella Comment by Angella on January 21, 2009 at 7:16pm
Delete Comment Dr. Tomar seems to imply that he second u on this point. I guess Karan, u hav expressed it so well that he does not want to add anything else. :)

Comment by karan on January 21, 2009 at 8:48pm
Delete Comment I am not taking it in a negitive way .My comment for Dr Tomar was on a very light tone with a
Smiling face.

Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 22, 2009 at 9:09pm
Delete Comment I agree with Amita, Angella, SPOC and Karan. By and large all schools have many rich and spoilt brats and parents role is all important.

But in richie rich schools which "now" charge between 60 to 150,000 per annum per child, many middle class people like me cannot afford to send 2 kids. I might to able to scrape by with sending one kid to such a school, but my kid would be the poorest in the class. I dont want him to be the poorest, even if only half the kids are spoilt brats and the other half are nice kids. Better to go to a school where the child will be somewhere in the middle, neither too rich, nor too poor

Re: DPS RKP, it was not Chona who elevated it to its current level, it was the previous principal RS Lugani. Chona has continued the status, but many feel it has come down somewhat in recent years. Better to say, other schools have caught up, DPS RKP is still the leader. Sadly, the mother school DPS MR has deteriorated, precicely because of its residential campus and admission policy of accomodating rich and powerful. Recent events in DPS RKP (new hostel, capitation fee based entry etc) are ominous. I would say the Ganguly committee has made for a much better intake in DPS in the last 3 years than in the 3 years before that, when anybody who could pay was allowed in.

All schools, DPS VK, Mothers, SPV and Birla not excluded, have continuous entry of bright children throughout the 14 years on the basis of entrance test. Wrong to single out only DPS RKP, other schools results are also biased by the performance of these bright kids.

DPS RKP, DPS VK, Birla, Mothers and SPV have truly excellent (and well paid) teachers, so these bright kids benefit by both competition and teaching in middle and higher classes, which they would not have got in their original schools. School of course benefits in the results. It is not a one way street.

DPs RKP differs from Birla and Mothers in its attention to sports, shared by DPS VK and SPV as well

Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 22, 2009 at 9:12pm
Delete Comment One more comment - now that DPS international has come, DPS RKP has refocussed on middle class intake while the upper class intake gets channelled into int school. Better for both and very sensible

Angella Comment by Angella on January 23, 2009 at 10:04am
Delete Comment Where is Amita ji? We are waiting to hear ur views on the comments given by various members of this forum.

karan Comment by karan on January 23, 2009 at 1:46pm
Delete Comment I beg to differ with oddysseus Noman in one count.......DPS I is is not just for upper class, it also is quiet good for upper middle and middle class.
I read your comments on NA regarding DPS I,those comments were factually wrong, i could not reply there because i discontinued my membership there.

karan Comment by karan on January 23, 2009 at 1:59pm
Delete Comment Delete Comment I would like to add one thing........ O Noman, i donot have anything persoanl against you, so please don't mind my last statement personally .............. You seem to be a very knowledgeable and intelligent person with strong opinion and will be a assest to this site but i felt you were misinformed regarding DPS I , so i thought i should clarify.:)) we are friends here so dont take my statement personally.

Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 23, 2009 at 8:23pm
Delete Comment Karan, why dont you tell us more about DPS I? I have only seen their (very posh!) building from outside. I did not apply to it and know little about it. My comments were very general about international schools.

Specifically, I would like to know how much their fee per annum is. Also, their class size and whether they use the same playground and coaches as DPS RK Puram

karan Comment by karan on January 27, 2009 at 12:42pm
Delete Comment I have already posted a thread "Acceptance of A Level ,University of Cambridge" in India, This is the course that is offered by DPSI.
As regards to fees it is aprox 7000 per month + 42000 per annum.
The student teacher ratio will be 20-25:1 , which they promise to keep till senior secondry.(The fees becomes justified as the student will be getting personal attention.)
Mrs Shama Chona, is now the director of DPS I , so this school will be under her dircect supervision in future,hence another plus point.
The Senior buliding in Saket is slf sufficient in playgrounds /coaches etc.
For further information please visit there site
http://www.dpsi.ac.in/

Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 28, 2009 at 12:06am
Delete Comment Hi Karan,

Thanks for the info.

1.2 L per annum (now) is beyond my budget. I am sure fees will increase later with general salary increase. I therefore never bothered to apply here.

I have only seen their RK Puram building. My own feeling is that they are keeping DPS for the middle class (govt servant etc) and DPSI for the upper middle/upper class, who can afford or are planning to educate their children abroad. A lot of people from DPS RKP who were sending their kids abroad would now prefer DPSI.

DPS RKP itself has been progressively increasing their playway methods of learning, structured curriculum and non stress teaching methods at their VV branch (posibly less so at EOK, although many people feel EOK is better than VV). I am sure all of this is learned from their DPSI experience. So the benefits flow both ways.

So are you planning to keep your kid in DPSI?

Odysseus Noman Comment by Odysseus Noman on January 28, 2009 at 12:14am
Delete Comment Amita, your comments are very true. Where the school will be in 14 years time is impossible to predict.

Principals do make a huge difference. RS Lugani of DPS RKP had a vision, which made it great in the 70s and 80s (when I was in school). Chona has continued the work, but DPS RKP has not risen higher, the graph has plateaued and others are playing catch up.

DPS MR had deteriorated, but it looks like the graph is pointing up again. Unlike many others, I found DPS MR admission process totally transparent. I think people were harking back to the old days when DPS MR had a bad reputation of admitting people on connections or money, when they complained or felt bitter.

Residential school in any of the schools admits for a deterioration of the atmosphere. DPS MR, Modern BKR and now DPS RKP are falling into this trap.

anyway, 14 years is a long way away. What our kids need then is also imponderable

I agree with you on this count that the benefits will definately flow both ways............:-))

kirti Comment by kirti on March 21, 2009 at 2:00pm
Delete Comment hi amrita i saw very nice discussion just now. i just joined few days back.

I DONT AGREE with shilpi i m leaving old established convent school for new upcoming school srijan